02: Henrietta Hudson | New York, NY
SARAH: ON OUR LAST STOP, CRUISING VISITED CUBBYHOLE -- NEW YORK CITY’S WELL-NAMED HOLE-IN-THE-WALL LESBIAN BAR.
WE MET DEB, CUBBYHOLE’S LARGER-THAN-LIFE BARTENDER…
DEB: I went through life like--I call myself dopey. Like I was in line and I was just like, doo doo doo doo doo going through life.
SARAH: AND LEARNED ABOUT TANYA, A JEWISH GERMAN IMMIGRANT WHO ORIGINALLY OPENED CUBBY IN 1993.
DEB: ...She was as kind as they come but you also don't f*** with her or anyone in her family.
SARAH: BUT BEFORE DEB OR EVEN TANYA HAD MADE THEIR MARKS ON LESBIAN NIGHTLIFE, THE WEST VILLAGE WAS HOME TO ANOTHER LESBIAN BAR CALLED CUBBY HOLE. SAME NAME. SAME THEME. TOTALLY DIFFERENT BAR. THIS ONE WAS LOCATED ABOUT A HALF MILE SOUTH, ON HUDSON STREET.
LISA: So it was the West Village it was the 1980s … we owned it, you know, like, we had all our nightclubs there, our underground nightclubs.
SARAH: THIS IS LISA CANNISTRACI. SHE WORKED AT THE ORIGINAL CUBBY HOLE AS A BARTENDER UNTIL IT CLOSED IN 1990. NOW, IN THE SAME SPACE WHERE SHE ONCE BARTENDED, LISA OWNS OUR SECOND NEW YORK CITY STOP - HENRIETTA HUDSON.
LISA: This bar is still here, this horseshoe bar is the same bar.
SARAH: LET’S REWIND FOR A SECOND. LISA FIRST STARTED BARTENDING IN THE EARLY 1980s ON WALL STREET.
LISA: It was The Wolf of Wall Street days. The movie was not exaggerated at all.
SARAH: IF YOU HAVEN’T SEEN THE LEONARDO DICAPRIO MOVIE, JUST PICTURE TONS OF MONEY, ALCOHOL, DRUGS, SEX, AND CORRUPTION.
WALL STREET OF THE 1980s WAS HOME TO SOME OF HISTORY'S MOST INFAMOUS FINANCIAL CRIMINALS. LIKE JORDAN BELFORT HIMSELF, LEANARDO DICAPRIO’S CHARACTER ON WOLF OF WALL STREET. TAKE IT FROM LEO.
LEONARDO DICAPRIO [in Wolf of Wall Street]: “The real question is this: was all of this legal? Absolutely f***ing not. But we were making more money than we knew what to so with.”
LISA: I hung out with those guys. I partied with them. Heavily heavy, heavy duty. I was the token lesbian and did not care because it was a ride. It's a wild ride. And the money was obscene that you know, they would throw at you being behind the bar.
SARAH: IT’S NOT SURPRISING THAT AFTER A FEW YEARS, LISA COULD NO LONGER KEEP UP WITH THIS LIFESTYLE.
LISA: I can cut to the chase. I'm sober today. It was just too much for me and it was not yeah it was crazy..I literally left that job to get away from that. And rolled on up to the West Village.
SARAH: ONE DAY, LISA WAS REJECTED FROM A JOB AT A WEST VILLAGE RESTAURANT. ON HER WALK BACK TOWARDS THE SUBWAY, IT STARTED TO RAIN.
LISA: And I was feeling really defeated and kind of just trudging down Hudson Street to make the left on Morton to go to the F train--I lived in Brooklyn. And literally, I'm not kidding. Like the sky opens up and it was started pouring. And I ran into this bar to get out of the rain and I basically was hired on the spot.
SARAH: THE BAR SHE RAN INTO, WAS THE ORIGINAL CUBBY HOLE. THE ONE ON HUDSON STREET.
LISA BARTENDED THERE FOR THE NEXT SEVERAL YEARS. AND HER NEW LIFE IN THE WEST VILLAGE COULD NOT HAVE BEEN MORE DIFFERENT THAN THE ONE SHE LEFT BEHIND ON WALL STREET.
LISA: So the West Village was a real activist community…essentially, the US government wouldn't even say the word AIDS or HIV, you know. And so we had to take to the streets and we were radical.
SARAH: LISA WAS PART OF ACT UP - A RADICAL POLITICAL GROUP FIGHTING TO END THE AIDS EPIDEMIC.
LISA: You know, we stormed St Patrick’s Cathedral on Sunday and we took over Grand Central Station
SARAH: SHE’S TALKING ABOUT THE 1989 “STOP THE CHURCH” PROTEST AT SAINT PATRICK’S CATHEDRAL IN MANHATTAN. DURING SUNDAY MASS, ACTIVISTS FLOODED THE CHURCH, LAYING DOWN IN THE AISLES AS A PART OF A PLANNED “DIE-IN.” LIKE A SIT-IN, BUT MADE UP OF PEOPLE DYING OF AIDS.
MICHAEL PETRELIS [Protestor at Saint Patrick’s Cathedral]: Stop killing us, stop killing us, we’re not gonna take it anymore. You’re killing us. Stop it. Stop it. Stop it.
SARAH: FOR LISA, AND SO MANY OTHERS, THE AIDS EPIDEMIC WAS PERSONAL.
LISA: My friends were dying. You know, I mean, they would get diagnosed and be dead in 10 days. That's how quickly they died.
SARAH: BACK THEN, ALL SHE REALLY KNEW ABOUT THE VIRUS, WAS THAT IT SPREAD THROUGH GAY MEN. WHEREAS WOMEN LIKE LISA SEEMED TO BE LESS VULNERABLE.
LISA: My friends who were lesbians and the gay women in the city. We went to St. Vincent's Hospital to take care of our guy friends because guys were terrified to go and they didn't know how it was transmitted back then.
SARAH: A LOT OF LISA’S FRIENDS SHE’D MET AT THE ORIGINAL CUBBY HOLE. ALL THE WHILE, SHE CONTINUED TO BARTEND THERE. WHEN THE BAR CLOSED IN 1990, SHE SPENT A FEW YEARS BOUNCING AROUND, WORKING AT DIFFERENT BARS IN MANHATTAN.
LISA: And then this woman, I met this woman, Minnie Rivera. She's still my business partner. 30 years later. We’re very good friends now.
SARAH: MINNIE HAD BEEN WORKING IN LESBIAN NIGHTLIFE SINCE THE 1970s. SHE RAN A SORT OF LESBIAN TRAVEL COMPANY.
LISA: She would lease out entire airplanes and take lesbians to like the Bahamas and stuff like that. And then she owned a couple of nightclubs which were pretty infamous like she owned this place called Network on 16th and 6th. Madonna used to go there and Jellybean would DJ there.
SARAH: FROM THE FIRST NIGHT THEY MET, MINNIE KNEW SHE WANTED TO WORK WITH LISA.
LISA: I was a bartender. And she walked in on one of my shifts and she was like, I guess she had a very good experience.
SARAH: MINNIE AND A FRIEND WERE ON THEIR WAY TO THE AIRPORT.
LISA: They popped in for a quick drink. And they never made it to the airport. I kept them there the whole time. As a bartender. They just had such a great time. She just never left. And then she tried to find me. And she found me and we sat down and had dinner. I don't know, the next thing I knew we were opening this place. It just was kind of in a whirlwind.
SARAH: THIS IS CRUISING. A PODCAST ABOUT THE LAST LESBIAN BARS IN THE U.S. MY NAME IS SARAH GABRIELLI AND I’M TRAVELLING TO EACH ONE OF THEM WITH MY TWO FRIENDS AND CHOSEN FAMILY.
THIS IS STOP NUMBER TWO: HENRIETTA HUDSON
IN 1991, THE ORIGINAL CUBBY HOLE SPACE OFFICIALLY BECAME HENRIETTA HUDSON.
LISA: Before we knew it we were the hottest ticket in town, you know, there were--and the way that you know that is, back then, taxis lined up in front of your bar. To take people, to pick people up, because that's how busy you are.
SARAH: DURING PRIDE WEEKEND, THEY GOT SO CROWDED, LISA HAD TO TURN PEOPLE AWAY.
LISA: The first couple of gay prides we were opened, I noticed I was sending my overflow of my guests to other other people's events because we just couldn't fit them in the bar.
SARAH: SO SHE DECIDED TO THROW HER OWN OFF-PREMISE DANCE PARTY ON THE PIER. IT’S CALLED SIREN.
LISA: And it’s magnificent. It’s this--It's a pop up nightclub that I build from scratch. So it's a 10,000 foot concrete pier. It's a blank slate. And then it's kind of like I have to build bars and stages and lighting and bathrooms and, and inventory and alcohol.
SARAH: AND SHE HAS REBUILT IT EVERY YEAR FOR THE PAST TWO DECADES. UNTIL COVID, OF COURSE.
LISA: 2020, no it was dark. Yeah and 2021 it was dark.
SARAH: BUT LISA KNEW HENRIETTA’S AND THE WEST VILLAGE WOULD SURVIVE COVID
LISA: Myself and other activists from the 80s who survived, men and women, were just like, yeah, okay, whatever, you know, like, we, you know, this is okay, we can handle it, because guess what? Everybody's talking about it. So that COVID had a way of a leg up, had a leg up on HIV/AIDS
SARAH: TODAY, AFTER SHUTTING DOWN FOR OVER A YEAR, HENRIETTA’S IS STILL A PRETTY HOT TICKET.
[sound of Henrietta Hudson today]
NOELIA: You want me to tell you about my closet experience? And how I came here to feel you know, how I felt?
SARAH: THIS IS NOELIA SHE HAS BEEN COMING TO HENRIETTA’S FOR ABOUT 20 YEARS.
NOELIA So when I first started coming here it was Latin nights on Wednesdays. They were just playing Spanish music: salsa, merengue and bachata. You know that type of music.
SARAH: AT THE TIME, NOELIA WAS MARRIED TO A MAN, AND HAD TWO CHILDREN. SHE HAD HER WEDDING AND FIRST BABY AT 17 YEARS OLD. BUT SHE ALWAYS KNEW SHE WAS ATTRACTED TO WOMEN.
NOELIA: I didn't pursue it. Because it, you know, the culture that I was raised in, you know, it wasn't appropriate. And, you know, females had to get married, have husbands that supported them and you had children and you raised your family. And that was that.
SARAH: IN HER MID-TWENTIES, NOELIA STARTED JOINING AOL CHATROOMS - WHERE SHE COULD MEET OTHER CLOSETED QUEER PEOPLE. AND SOON AFTER, SHE WENT TO HENRIETTA’S FOR THE FIRST TIME. SHE WENT WITH ONE OF HER FRIENDS FROM AOL.
NOELIA: It was not about you know, picking up anyone. It was just around being people that were just like you, which is not something that I was raised with.
SARAH: SO NOELIA STARTED GOING TO HENRIETTA’S TWICE A WEEK AFTER WORK, OFTEN ALONE.
NOELIA: But I didn’t have many friends that were gay and I was a closet case. So whenever I wanted, whenever I felt down and depressed, I wanted to be around people that I felt comfortable with. So I came here.
SARAH: THREE YEARS AGO, NOELIA CAME OUT OF THE CLOSET.
NOELIA: And that's because I fell in love with her [laughs]
SARAH: SHE’S TALKING TO HER PARTNER, FRANKIE.
NOELIA: I couldn't even peek out. Cause she kind of like had, you know, had an ultimatum, you either have to come out to your family or you know, I just can’t have this type of relationship. So it was either, you know, sacrificing one or the other. So, and I wanted to be with her and I knew it. So I'm happy. I'm very happy. She's motivating. She supports She's my rock. I love her. She's so cute. And that's my munchie. I call her my munchie.
SARAH: EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE, THEY BOTH STILL COME TO HENRIETTA’S TOGETHER.
TONIGHT, HENRIETTA’S IS HOSTING A WATCH PARTY FOR THE NEW EPISODE OF THE L-WORD GENERATION Q. THOUGH, THAT WAS JUST A COINCIDENCE FOR NOELIA AND FRANKIE.
SARAH: [at Henrietta Hudson] Are you trying to watch the show?
NOELIA: No, we really don’t care.
SARAH: A PROJECTOR IS SET UP OUT ON THE SIDEWALK. AND A CROWD OF MOSTLY FEMININE-PRESENTING QUEER FOLKS OOO AND AHHH AT THEIR FAVORITE CHARACTERS WITH DRINKS IN HAND.
LISA HAS AN APARTMENT ABOVE THE BAR BUT SHE SPENDS A LOT OF TIME OUT OF TOWN. TONIGHT, SHE IS AROUND. SHE CHECKS IN ON THE SHOW AND WALKS HER TWO DOGS THROUGH THE AUDIENCE OF L-WORD FANS.
WEEKLY WATCH PARTIES ARE JUST ONE OF THE MANY CHANGES AT HENRIETTA HUDSON SINCE THEIR RE-OPENING. HERE’S LISA AGAIN.
LISA: Henrietta's was always notoriously that packed dance club, which is great. I mean, it's wonderful. That's what sustains us, right? But I think a lot of folks realized during COVID that they want that one-on-one, intimate, look in somebody's eyes and not be screaming and have a conversation. Have a glass of wine and maybe a little bite to eat.
SARAH: THEY STILL OPEN UP THE DANCE FLOOR AFTER 10PM EVERY NIGHT. BUT NOW, LIKE SO MANY OTHER BARS, THEY ALSO HAVE FULL SERVICE DINING.
LISA: So what you can have at Henrietta's is whatever you want. You know you can have a quiet, lovely experience in the cabanas outside or on the sidewalk at one of our tables or you know lounge seating inside. Or you can go totally bananas and come in on the weekends and let it out.
SARAH: THE SIDE ROOM, CONNECTED TO THE DANCE FLOOR, USED TO HAVE A POOL TABLE AND SECOND BAR. NOW, IT’S MORE OF A LOUNGE. AND THE BAR IS WHERE THEY PREPARE FOOD:
LISA: Like charcuterie, cheeses, guacamole, hummus, stuff like that, beautiful big pretzels.
SARAH: WHILE YOU’RE WAITING IN THE BATHROOM LINE YOU CAN SEE RIGHT INTO THE CHARCUTERIE STATION. THAT’S HOW RACHEL, JEN, AND I MET EVELYN. SHE LIKES TO STRIKE UP CONVERSATIONS WITH EVERYONE IN LINE.
EVELYN: My full name? Evelyn Reyes I’m the chef.
SARAH: EVELYN JUST STARTED WORKING THERE THIS MAY. SHE ALSO WORKS AS A CHEF AT THE UNITED NATIONS FEDERAL CREDIT UNION BUILDING IN QUEENS. THAT’S WHERE I MET UP WITH HER TO CHAT ABOUT HENRIETTA’S.
EVELYN: So this is where I work.
SARAH: Oh cool!
EVELYN: The buildings--I come down here. Would you like some cold water or something?
SARAH: DURING THE PANDEMIC, HER HOURS GOT CUT AT THE FEDERAL CREDIT UNION. SO EVELYN HAD TO TAKE ON THE SECOND JOB AT HENRIETTA’S. SHE’S IN QUEENS MONDAY TO FRIDAY AND THEN AT THE BAR FRIDAY TO SUNDAY.
EVELYN: Friday is the hardest day because I'm here all day and I leave from here, take like a 15-20 minutes break. Wash up my face, you know change my--you know straight up a little bit. And go down to Manhattan.
SARAH: EVELYN GREW UP IN PUERTO RICO. SHE HAS BEEN COOKING SINCE SHE WAS A CHILD.
EVELYN: When I was eight years old, my family has a business. And my after school, I used to have to come and work with them. Helping in the kitchen, with my dad, with my mom, my stepmom, my aunt, and everybody else.
SARAH: IT WAS ALSO AROUND THAT TIME EVELYN REALIZED SHE WAS ATTRACTED TO WOMEN. BUT SHE COULDN’T TELL HER FAMILY. THEY WERE VERY RELIGIOUS.
EVELYN: Because they cannot understand me, they--I was scared. Cause they--I was scared that I was disappointing my family because they don't not gonna expect me to have a girlfriend.
SARAH: BUT THAT DIDN’T STOP HER FROM SECRETLY DATING GIRLS. WHEN EVELYN WAS 13, HER GIRLFRIEND’S MOTHER CAUGHT THEM KISSING.
EVELYN: I was on top of her. I was like uh--my face drop, you know I feel like Jesus when he was sweating….
SARAH: And what did she say?
EVELYN: What is going on here? Explain that to me. We didn't know what to say. We didn't know what to say...She dragged me from my neck and pulled me out of the house.
SARAH: EVELYN KNEW THIS WOMAN WOULD TELL HER FAMILY WHAT HAPPENED. SO, AT 13 YEARS OLD, SHE BOUGHT PLANE TICKETS TO NEW YORK CITY. AND HER AND HER GIRLFRIEND RAN AWAY.
EVELYN: Yeah, we was trying to escape. We was always making plan we gotta to escape. We're gonna go here. We're gonna, we're gonna go but where are we going? We always be making plans but never will follow through. Til one day it was like yo, let's go to New York. Yes. Let's go to New York.
SARAH: WHILE EVELYN WAS FINALLY FREE TO COME OUT OF THE CLOSET, IT WASN’T SMOOTH SAILING FROM THERE. I MEAN, SHE WAS 13. SHE DIDN’T HAVE A SUPPORT SYSTEM OR ANY MONEY. SHE ENDED UP GETTING PAID TO COUNT MONEY FOR A DRUG DEALER.
EVELYN: I was in apartment just counting the money. Putting it in suitcases and he come, then somebody come pick it up. And one time I got in trouble. Bad trouble.
SARAH: EVELYN WAS 18 WHEN SHE WENT TO PRISON.
EVELYN: I did enough time
SARAH: What?
EVELYN: Enough. Enough to get my head together.
SARAH: How long?
EVELYN: Enough.
SARAH: EVELYN DOESN’T REALLY LIKE TALKING ABOUT HER TIME IN PRISON. BUT SHE SAYS IN SOME WAYS, SHE WAS ABLE TO MAKE THE BEST OF IT. FOR ONE THING, SHE WORKED IN THE KITCHEN.
EVELYN: That was one of the best jobs because you always move, you're never locked up so you never--you know they never keep you locked. You cooking, do things, clean up and everything. So you was free.
SARAH: A NON-PROFIT CALLED “HOUR CHILDREN” HELPED EVELYN GET BACK ON HER FEET WHEN SHE GOT OUT OF PRISON. THEY HOOKED HER UP WITH A SCHOLARSHIP TO CULINARY SCHOOL AND HOUSING IN QUEENS.
ONE NIGHT EVELYN WAS OUT AT HER NEIGHBORHOOD LESBIAN BAR, WHICH HAS SINCE CLOSED.
EVELYN: Bum Bum Bar. It was an old old bar that used to look like the Stonewall. It's we used to say that's the mini mini Stonewall. But in Queens.
SARAH: THERE, SHE MET A 4-foot-9 ECUADORIAN WOMAN NAMED ANDREA AND TOOK HER HOME. SITTING ON THE COUCH, ANDREA PULLED AWAY FROM EVELYN AND SAID SHE NEEDED TO TELL HER SOMETHING.
EVELYN: So I got a little nervous, you know? She was like I'm not gay. I was like, What? How is that? I spilled the beer. I remember that. Whoooosh. I said what? I was like what what what were you, what were you in a gay bar?
SARAH: BUT ANDREA STILL SPENT THE NIGHT.
EVELYN: You can change your clothes, sleep in my bed, I'm going to sleep in the couch. I went and get a pillow. I gave her a kiss on the forehead. Said you don’t have to feel bad about it.
SARAH: A WEEK OR TWO LATER, ANDREA CALLED EVELYN TO ASK HER ON A DATE. SHE HAD DONE A LOT OF THINKING SINCE THEIR NIGHT TOGETHER.
EVELYN: Her curiosity...kill her. She start watching that series the L Word [laughs] to be a gay. Yes no she watched it, she liked it. Yeah, she started realize...naturally. She said I can be gay just for you.
SARAH: TODAY, EVELYN AND ANDREA ARE MARRIED AND THEY HAVE THREE DOGS
EVELYN: La la, Cheeky, and Chubby. They shih-tzus. I love--they's my, they my life.
SARAH: AND SHE’S ABLE TO MAKE A LIVING AS A CHEF - DOING WHAT SHE LOVES. WHEN IT CAME TO GETTING HIRED AT HENRIETTA’S, LISA DIDN’T CARE ABOUT EVELYN’S RECORD.
EVELYN: She sees people as family, she’s workers is family. She treats you like cool
SARAH: LISA ALWAYS TALKS ABOUT HOW EVERYONE IS WELCOME AT HER BAR. THAT APPLIES TO CUSTOMERS AND EMPLOYEES ALIKE. GAY, BISEXUAL, TRANS, NON-BINARY…
WE HAVE ACTUALLY HEARD PEOPLE QUOTE HER PHILOSOPHIES AT OTHER LESBIAN BARS AROUND THE COUNTRY. THIS IS ALLY SPAULDING, THE GENERAL MANAGER OF A LEAGUE OF HER OWN IN WASHINGTON, DC.
ALLY: I think that Lisa at Henrietta Hudson said it best. Um, so Lisa says that this is a queer bar built by lesbians, right?
SARAH: THIS IS A RELATIVELY NEW TAG-LINE FOR HENRIETTA’S, IMPLEMENTED SINCE THEIR REOPENING THIS YEAR. HERE’S LISA:
LISA: So I had 15 months to reflect on everything. And we came back as a queer human bar built by lesbians. And that's really how I feel, that I feel like that's what we are. And, you know, just to really embrace and rubber stamp the fact that we're all-inclusive, and that there's no gray area, though.
SARAH: SOME NEW YORK CITY LESBIANS PUSHED BACK AGAINST THE REBRANDING ON SOCIAL MEDIA. WRITER AND PODCASTER KINSEY CLARKE TWEETED “At what point are lesbians ready to admit that decentering ourselves in our own establishments is the main contribution to lesbian erasure”
LISA: But the thing they didn't realize was, it's been that bar for the past 10 years. We just didn't, we just didn't put it in tag lines. It’s been like that. There's been trans people among you. There's been queer people among you. There’s been non-binary people among you. They're all--they've been here.
SARAH: HENRIETTA’S IS FAR FROM THE ONLY BAR ON OUR LIST, THAT HAS SHIFTED AWAY FROM THE TERM “LESBIAN.” NOBODY’S DARLING IN CHICAGO, FOR INSTANCE, AND BACKDOOR BAR in INDIANA to name a few.
THEY SAY USING MORE INCLUSIVE LANGUAGE LIKE “QUEER” OR “WOMEN CENTRIC” IS MERELY A WAY OF BETTER REPRESENTING THEIR CLIENTELE — NOT ERASING THEM.
LISA: They’ve been here. So shame on you for wanting to exclude them when you didn't even realize they were in the f***ing room the whole time.
SARAH: ACCORDING TO LISA, THE ONLY THING THAT HAS CHANGED ABOUT THE COMMUNITY AT HENRIETTA’S, IS THE LABEL.
CRUISING IS REPORTED AND PRODUCED BY RACHEL KARP, JEN MCGINNITY, AND ME, SARAH GABRIELLI, WITH MUSIC BY JOEY FREEMAN. FOLLOW US ALONG ON OUR ROAD TRIP AND SEE PICTURES AT OUR WEBSITE: CRUISINGPOD.COM OR FOLLOW US ON SOCIAL MEDIA @CRUISINGPOD. THAT’S C-R-U-I-S-I-N-G-P-O-D.
SPECIAL THANKS THIS WEEK TO LISA, EVELYN, NOELIA AND EVERYONE AT HENRIETTA HUDSON.
YOU CAN LISTEN WHEREVER YOU GET YOUR PODCASTS.
