Bonus Content: Deb Greenberg | Cubbyhole

SARAH: HI LISTENERS. THIS IS SARAH WITH A SPECIAL EPISODE OF CRUISING. WE HAVE SO MANY QUEER STORIES THAT DON'T MAKE IT INTO THE MAIN EPISODES. SO, ON OUR OFF WEEKS, WE'RE GOING TO START RELEASING SOME OF OUR FULL INTERVIEW TAPES. FIRST I WANTED TO SHARE MY INTERVIEW WITH DEB GREENBERG, THE BARTENDER FROM CUBBYHOLE. NOW, THIS WAS BACK IN APRIL, CUBBYHOLE HAD JUST REOPENED, AND WE ACTUALLY WEREN'T ALLOWED TO HANG OUT INSIDE BECAUSE OF COVID. THAT'S WHY YOU'RE GOING TO HEAR SOME TRAFFIC AND CONSTRUCTION. WE'RE SITTING OUTSIDE, ON THE WOODEN FLOOR OF CUBBYHOLE'S NEW, OUTDOOR PATIO. PLEASE ENJOY, AND REACH OUT TO LET US KNOW WHO YOU WANT TO HEAR MORE FROM NEXT TIME.  

DEB: I have a very, very crazy coming out story.

SARAH: Please tell me.

DEB: Well basically, I didn't come out till I was 45. I--honestly it wasn't for fear of coming out. It was because it was a different time and my brother was gay. And I say was, he had passed away from AIDS. But it was a long struggle for him in different many ways. There was nothing wrong with it. But I came from a generation where there was no social media. So I knew nothing. And I just assumed I had crushes on girls. I was a major tomboy. My family would not not have accepted me. I just didn't know. And I literally didn't know I was gay. I didn't know. I had no idea. I went through life like I call myself Dopey, like I was in line and I was just like, doo doo doo doo doo going through life. But never had a relationship. And I had no fear. My mother was loving to everyone. I just didn't know. So when my brother passed, I got laid off from my job in the world of entertainment, marketing and licensing. I worked on South Park. I worked on Carebears with the relaunch and the marketing and merchandising in that. I worked on cartoons, Hanna-Barbera cartoons, I worked on the original 9021 launching the product out there, I mean, helping and it's like, I did all these things. And then when I got laid off in 2009, specifically because it got too corporate. I didn't want to have any part of that world. For a year I wandered around. And then I kind of came into my own and I started watching The Runaways, the movie that came out with Kristen Stewart and Dakota Fanning. And I always was always was into Joan Jett. I was always a tomboy 'til I hit a certain age and kind of lost who I was. And I started really dressing like who I started out with, with my Converse and my jeans and coming back to who I felt so comfortable with. And I just kept watching that movie, The Runaways in the theaters in '09 or March 2010 or something whenever it was, I forget '09? For 30 days in a row. And I'm like, Oh, man, I'm gay. That's why I love girls so much. And that's why I'm enjoying this movie so much. So I started going to Cubby. I called a friend. I honestly because I'm so I was so new. I did not know. I didn't know Cubbyhole from a hole in the wall. My friends just said, that I came out to, she's like you'll love you know, check out Henrietta Hudson, check out Cubbyhole. And you know Henrietta Hudson was fine. But I think the Cubbyhole was more my vibe because I was really a dive bar dive bar person. I was not a dance person ever, you know, and uh for Henrietta Hudson's for the dance floor that that was perfect. And I came that night the dance floor. But never was my vibe. Even when I used to have the straight bars, it wasn't my vibe. Always just a plain old jukebox dive bar. So when I walked into Cubby, I was like, okay, you know, this is a little bit smaller, a little bit more for me.

SARAH: Would you come every day? How often would you come?

DEB: Every night. And remember Cubby is open seven days a week 'til four in the morning. So even if I got back to the city, to my apartment at like 11 or 12 at night from if I was at family in Jersey or a friend's, wherever the hell I was. It's open 'til four in the morning. So if I dropped my shit off at 12--excuse me, I'm sorry. If I dropped my stuff off at like 12 or 1 in the morning. I still got three hours to hang out at Cubby. Like, I just couldn't wait to go out and hook up, hook up, hook up. You know what I mean? Like not, you know, it was a, you know, I met some women here who had my mentality. And, you know, we were probably those you know, what some straight women would refer to as those asshole guys in the bar at the time, really. And I and I own it. And I was an asshole at the time. But now I understand it. But at the time, it was for me, it was like, I wasn't a teenager, and I never had that experience. And I was just like, I get it, now. I get it. You know, I was like, it was like, Oh my God. Now I get it. Now I get why I had, you know, all these women on my wall. It wasn't just crushes, I was in love with them. So it was amazing. So I am living my best life. And as far as coming out, I am so blessed. All my friends, they didn't even really pay attention to me, some of them. Like I'd be on line in the store. And I'd be like, guess what, I just want to let you know and they're like, no, like, I'm gay. And they're like, Oh, thank God, please just be happy. And then they would just go on with their conversation. Or like my best friend Joanne who was like my mentor in my other career. She was like, Thank God I want to go get the pride flag and climb Mount Everest and wave it. Thank God. When I came out to my mom, I go to Florida 'cause my mom's what is a snowbird she usually comes up in June. Unfortunately, I haven't seen her in a year and a half because of the pandemic. But I was down there for Thanksgiving. And I'm like, Mom, mom, and I'm skipping along next to her because she does her morning walk and I don't know how to say it. And she goes, Oh, I know you're a lesbian. And I started laughing and she's just like, I knew you were and I go well, I said I'm getting I said I don't know what lesbian--I said I like being called gay. I'm gonna get I'm gonna hold on to lesbian on that. And that's only because my brother who was an asshole, Jonathan, who god rest his soul was amazing, gay man. But he used to be like, Oh, lesbian sounds like a skin disease. They used to joke. So in my head, that's where that came from. I'm like, I prefer gay woman, Mom. But now I love lesbian, of course, but it was so funny. I'm like, Oh Mom I prefer being called a gay woman. But she was just like, Oh, both my kids are gay. She goes maybe I'm gay. I did kiss a woman when I was 13, you know, we were practicing. I'm like, Well, you kissed a woman before me, Mom. Anyway, so that was my, in a real quick sum-up, my coming out story. And that's how I was up at Cubby and I never left.

SARAH: Was this all during 2010. You saw, you see the movie?

DEB: 2009 I got laid off. And then I saw the movie in 2010. Okay, March, April 2010 I come here. June 2010 I start like hustling here. I would come here Friday nights and sit by the bar. And so I started helping and Tanya noticed me Tanya was the original owner of cafe. She was in here one night and asked, there was a big spill in the bar by the toilet. The toilet was clean. It was just the tank was overflowing. And Danny and Lisa were packed. And it was a Friday night. And I said oh you know, I'll help you guys, I'll help and I was waving to Lisa and she said okay, that would be great. And Danny ran down the bar, opened those basement doors and he grabbed the mop for me and he went back behind the bar and I started mopping and Tanya and her friends were getting a real big kick out of it because the mop handle was so much bigger than me. And she just was like are you sure you can do this? I'm like yeah, and then I just started helping. And then I just all of a sudden you know they, Tanya took notice and really liked my personality and people seem to love me and all of a sudden before I know it here I am. My second career and I'm going into my 10th year now as a sorry Cubbyhole bartender. While I was cleaning, my most famous story is see this right here? This is a washer that I'm going into my 11th year wearing because it was part of that toilet. I saw this floating so I'm like I need something to remember this night by because she's you know Tonya definitely like I kind of met her before but she never saw me like help help. So I grabbed it and I'm like I got it I need to do something with this and like I'm so I was like, I'm like I'm just gonna wear around my neck and I you know, here we go. 11 years later, it's still a toilet washer's around my neck. I do take it off for weddings like I have like I snapped the cord before and cut it off and got new cords and put it on. Because I have for family members been asked can you just take it off for the wedding? And I was reluctant at first but you know there are some things I will do now. And now I know we can get a new black cord.

SARAH: Can you describe Tanya for me? Like what? What was she like?

DEB: I'm gonna cry! Yes. Tanya was about 5'3''? 5'4''? I'm 4'4'' and a half so she may be shorter or taller. I don't know how to describe height. She had, she died her hair like a reddish color. Old older woman she she passed in her early 80s. Biggest smile. She always wore bucket hats. Black long shirts. Just she looks like you know like anyone's Nana or Nonna you know like that. She's a whole interesting story. Tanya ran from the Holocaust with her mother to Queens. She was very cul--very cultured. Ate out all the time, Broadway shows. She was into foreign films. Very much an animal lover. Left most of her estate to animals, ASPCA, animal shelters. If there was someone saying something about pigeons outside and Tanya was walking, I'd say Don't say anything. Like I remember Ellen told me Debbie don't ever call pigeons flying rats in front of Tanya, she won't talk to you for a week. We used to have to feed the pigeons, there was birdseed down there. So she was generous to a fault. She was the type of person that if she overheard you saying you needed a mattress and couldn't afford it, even though she didn't know you, she would say Come here. Come here, honey. And you wouldn't even know she was the owner of the bar. She would be here at happy hour and you'd be like, yeah? She's like, did you to say you need money for a mattress? And she'd call like me over if I was bartending and she'd be like Honey, Honey, get $300 from the register. And you'd be like, wait, what? And they need a mattress. Like, that's how--That's an example just like, that's how far she would go to help a human. Or if someone was out of work and she overheard someone was out of work. And she'd say, Debbie, give me $20, just write $25 on the back of the Cubby business card, and she'd hand it to them without knowing them. That's who Tanya was. She was as kind as they come. But you also don't f*** with her anyone in her family. As kind as she is, she'll protect it to the end, if you were you know what I mean?

SARAH: Do you have any specific memories about that?

DEB: Yes, this woman comes into the bar. And very, dressed very fancy. She has her Louie bag on her. You know, the nails done and her dressed to the nines, very on trend. And she is in the middle of the bar. It's not too crazy and Tanya's on the other end. And I heard her say something to one of the other customers. I don't even remember what I said. But I told her the answer, and I go, Oh, ba-ba-ba, because the other woman didn't know. And she looks at me, puts her--throws her bag on the bar and goes, Excuse me. I wasn't talking to you. I don't think I was talking to the bartender was I? And I looked at her, I said, Excuse me. I said, I just overheard you asking this woman and she didn't know. So I'm just helping you she goes Oh, but I wasn't talking to the bartender. And Tanya here, heard that. And she goes, Excuse me? Excuse me. Can you come here? And she goes, Did I just hear you talk to my bartender? Like, Wait, what did you say? And she goes, get the hell out of my bar, now! You don't talk to anyone like that. Let alone somebody who works at my bar. Get the hell out! Like that. Because you don't talk to anyone condescending like that. Who the hell do you think you are? Get out! And the woman previously it wasn't just that the conversation really turned her like she was coming at me a little bit more so than what I just said, because Tanya really got mad and just kicked her out. So that was one time. And then another time this woman said she put $100 on the bar and said I stole it. That it was by her drink. And I stole it. And I said I didn't steal your money. And I said I did not see $100 there, nor would I take it. And I and I said and I just said the owner of the bar is sitting right there. And we have video. So if you want to come back tonight, my manager--Lisa was the manager at the time--I will let the manager know and you could come back tomorrow and we could look but I did not steal your $100. So Tanya is sitting in the corner by where the microwave is. And she turns she goes what's going on? And I said Tanya, I this woman thinks I took her $100 bill. I did not take it. And she looks at me. She goes she goes What? She would never take your money. She goes get the hell out of my bar, get the f*** out. How dare you. She goes get the f*** out of my bar and don't you come back? Don't you ever accuse anybody on my staff stealing your goddamn money. Get the f*** out? And she did. Because she knows like she she didn't even have it. There was no $100 bill, you know? And I'm honest to a fault. And I know it. I'm just like, I did not take your money. So that's how protective Tanya--like she literally didn't even skip a beat when she was just like get the f*** out of my bar. My staff would not steal your money. So it was she's just, that's how protective she is. You know, and in general. And she would call just on a Saturday to see how you're doing.

SARAH: A lot of people said, talked about how she would order pizza?

DEB: Oh, we order pizza every happy hour. If we didn't she called down Honey, did you order pizza? Yes, it's on its way. I every Monday, Thursday and Friday on my shift I gave out shots and pizza. Like before the pizza came--I would call for pizza and then I would stop the music and I'd say alright guys, it's time for shots because pizza is on its way. Now on Fridays, it was always I played Rihanna cheers to the freakin' weekend to do shots. The whole bar had a quiet, I made sure everybody had a shot in their hands and we did a toast. And Mondays we did a toast. So yes, every Monday, Thursday, and Friday. Tuesdays it was $2 margaritas and now I think it's it's $3 margaritas, excuse me. So yes, happy hours pizza all the time. That's why I always did. I always did a parody Mondays. I have all these parody videos. I got better and better at singing. I did like the Weird Al Yankovic parody song Pizza and Shots, it's like I love pizza and shots. da-nah-nah-nah-nah-nah, like I opened the door at four--like I did these stupid things like I have tons of them. You know, like, like, I'm like Cubbyhole, Cubbyhole, doing shot and pizza at Cubbyhole. You know, you know, I mean, and I put a Spiderman mask on, and I ended my video going I'm like See you, see you at four o'clock citizens! And I mean I did these videos that were crazy but I built up Mondays and then people expected them. So I felt like every Monday I'd come here at like 1:30, my shift didn't start till 4:00, I'd have to do all these takes for these silly, silly 15 second videos. And it took all this time to record. It was so funny, but I had fun doing them. So I can't wait to get back to that. With this, I'm not going to do it because we have so much to set out, set up and people keep going, Deb are you going to do your videos? I'm just like, I can't right now. But when we get back to normal, I'm going to save that for our treat to get back to doing my songs and I used to write them the night before. I'd get up in the middle of the night. And I'd be like, Huh, you know, like how Weird Al Yankovic does those parodies? So, you know, you know, like, Wake me up to Cubbyhole--you know what I mean, I would do silly things.

SARAH: What was it like behind the bar? Like when when it was really crazy. And everyone's just like, you know, crowded, you just got used to it?

DEB: Yeah, I mean, it just you're in a zone. So it's just like when it's really crowded, you're just doing your thing. Yeah. And you just got to be aware, always and your eyes are always looking to make sure, always darting and when you're with the other bartender, it's always fun, you're banging into each other. Or, you know, it's just like when it gets too crazy. you look at each other. Sometimes you'll be like, you'll be like shot shot? Yeah. We do a shot and then we go back to it. I mean, you've seen the bartenders, how we react. And you know what I always say, for me, my whole vibe is this is my home, you're coming into my home. If you're not having fun, for some reason, talk to me. What's happening in that--that I can say for me? It's a little harder because I'm short. I can't see what's going on. So if there's, God forbid, a little bit of a, you know, a couple of people are arguing over something and you're getting annoyed and I'm not seeing it, people always--I always tell people, you got to come to me. I can't see. I can't see past the first stool. I can't. I can't see over the first person. Everybody else can. I can't. So I always say that. But basically I--this is my home, you're not having fun, let me know. But you should be having fun. It's Cubbyhole. You're out drinking, have fun. So that's my vibe. It's like my house. Let's have fun. That's why virtual Cubbyhole was so important to me during the pandemic so that people could tune in and I don't even know if you know, during the pandemic during the first lockdown. Excuse me, I made a kitchen, my kitchen to look like Cubbyhole. I hung things up in it. I put lights around so that when you turned it on, when you tuned in on every Friday, I had music playing I had questions and we did a virtual Cubbyhole. We did shots together and I had I did it through GoMagazine and we had virtual Cubbyhole every Friday night during the first lockdown when we had to close everything down. People just tuned in from their desks or their home when they were working. And every Friday during the that first lockdown in 2020 every Friday everyone would go are you doing your happy hour? And I would make my videos you know Tune in Friday going live and I had like hundreds of people. And then after watching the IGTV, there'll be like 1000s of views. So that was fun to keep Cubby going and just throughout this pandemic. I'm sure Lisa spoke about what the community did for us, my God. Talking about being blown away, and you saw what happened Thursday. I mean, my god, I mean, I get I get chills. And and this is Candace like what she's doing. I mean, Candace and her team built this for us. I mean, they're donating their time. I mean, I think Lisa is covering the materials, I'm sure but I don't know their arrangements. But trust me, it ain't what she's, I'm sure of it's like the gratefulness that I feel towards this community. We wouldn't be sitting here if it weren't for the community this would this cabana, this thing wouldn't be out, this canopy, if not for the help of everyone with the GoFundMe and buying the merchandise and like even our last Sunday here in December, it was 22 degrees. And people were sitting out here drinking not only are hot drinks, but too, this couple used to come in from New Jersey and drink these frozen drinks and they're sitting out there like this, but only with 20 degrees and you and I are like this. So I just love I love our community in every which way. I have never been so proud to be part of something.

SARAH: What did you do the rest of the week during lockdown? Like how did you occupy yourself? What was that like?

DEB: I mean, what did I do? I did nothing. I had--you know I was broke. 

SARAH: You had no income?

DEB: I mean pretty--no, pretty much no. I wasn't working and--I mean I got high a lot. I got stoned and watched movies. What can I say? No I mean I did keep, I did, kept my strength up because I was just coming off chronic illness so--that they found. So I was building up my strength to get back to Cubby.

SARAH: Do you mind talking about the your like discovery of your illness and what--?

DEB: Well yeah, I just collapsed on basically I collapsed January like 18th? 19th? 20? I collapsed January 21, 2019. I was at home getting ready for my shift. I got out of bed to go start getting ready and my legs just gave out. And doctor after doctor, they kept thinking it was vertigo, my ears, and I kept trying to tell everyone I was not dizzy. I never felt dizzy. I just felt like I was fading like a character in a spy movie where I got shot with some serum and everyone was fading out like a camera shot. And I just went down and I just couldn't get up anymore.

SARAH: And then from then on, you couldn't walk? 

DEB: I couldn't walk, I had trouble. I could and then out of nowhere, I would just collapse it would just and that's when when I would just--and open spaces I was fine. It was so weird. And then when there was a pattern or if there was a pattern on TV, I had to go like this. I got like oh my god like I couldn't. It was really bad. So with what I had, it's very rare. You can't tell what it is. That's why it's very rare. I was going to neurosurgeons. I was paying my bills. I mean, we're talking over--like just I paid of my own money, this isn't without the fundraisers, just short of $30,000 of my own money. And then this is then the fundraisers came in fundraisers to help me pay my living to just to live and pay my bills and other doctors and the community raised money for me. Cubbyhole did a GoFund. Then Stonewall and the whole community did a fundraiser with drag queens and music. There was an auction with people putting the gifts like from oh my god, like there was like a $300 watch someone put up, there was Lamere products. Stonewall put up gifts, Cubbyhole--

SARAH: --and this is all this is all at Stonewall?

DEB: This was like February 9, not this past February, but the February before, upstairs. There was like I think over 200 people there upstairs. It was--I was blown away. I can't even tell you I could--people from my old career there. My old boss came with some of my old colleagues, other friends. Patrons from the bar that I never even met yet because they didn't know me because they had hired Britt to take over my Mondays when I got ill. So there she brought you know, there are people who didn't even know me they just had started coming in. And it was I can't even tell you how much I was blown away, Sarah. I mean, I call my mother I'm like Mom, my funeral is gonna have standing room only. That was a year February. So like, this past February 9th was so February 9th was a year since that fundraiser. A year from this past February 9th, a year ago, I was being carried basically out of Stonewall, because I couldn't see or look up from the lights. Could you imagine modern medicine, once they got the diagnosis. It's only needed to do it it was it was a struggle, but they did it. July 2020 This amazing doctor Dr. Marc Dinkin discovered I have something called Episodic Type Two Ataxia which is like what only like less than .3% or 1.3% of the population, general population have it and it has to do in conjunction with the silent migraines where my eyes were not signaling to my brain that they weren't the my the patterns weren't being processed in my brain. Like I could see these lanterns moving. I can see you, but it's okay. I'm not going to be wobbly and fall down and my eyes can see light. And I had silent migraines aside with it, but you can't they don't come up so people don't know they're having them. So I can eat a lot of different things now. I can't drink beer anymore wine but I could have to tequila and vodka which is fine by me. Because I only do like only do shots of vodka or shots of tequila. And then I drink vodka on the rocks. And I can have a lot of different foods now which is fine. I don't care about that it was the alcohol I was nervous about but tequila I'm like okay, as long as I can still have my tequila, I'm good.

SARAH: So you were able to recover through like these dietary changes and like medication as well?

DEB: Yeah, that started in July and now my medication is perfect. I'm on it. I keep at some at the bar, wherever I know I'm gonna be because I it's chronic. Will I go down again? She thinks at some point I may. You know if I'm gonna if you're like to Deb come over and have dinner, I'll be I'll have it on me in my bag or on my pocket. Because I don't know. I take one in the morning and one at night now. Always. So yay! Here I am.

SARAH: Did you try to work at all after the first episode?

DEB: I couldn't I couldn't even walk into Cubby. I walked into the Cubby first time in--after all was said and done in September, this past September and started looking up at the ceiling and Geeta got me to work she just--Well, the funny thing is 10 years ago who how I got faster, faster behind the bars because of Geeta. When I first started, I came on a Saturday, once I once I got behind the bar. Lisa threw me behind the bar on St. Patrick's Day. And I had worked with this woman Jackie who owns Cherries, who used to own part of Cubby and she was teaching me drinks and had me following her and behind the bar and she was fabulous. And then Lisa really got me behind the bar in St. Patrick's Day because I was working with her. And then that Saturday, Geeta wanted to go have a cigarette have a cigarette break. But Geeta smokes American spirits, which is a 45 minute cigarette. I did not know that. So, Geeta says, she calls me duck. That's another thing, her and Lisa. So she's like, duck, go behind the bar, you'll be fine. And I'm nervous. Because I mean, now I you know, if there's I'm fine, but at the time, you know, it's just like, oh my god, I'm like, okay, so I get behind the bar she goes you'll be fine. So I'm serving and I'm doing it. And I was fine. I was nervous, but there was a lot of people, but that's how you learn. And Geeta built me up and got my confidence and 10 years later, here I am, after coming back from being sick, nervous. I haven't done it. And I was scared and I wasn't even coming to work. I was coming to sit outside. Because I was just trying to get my you know, my bearings. And Geeta goes Duck, I'm gonna go have a cigarette. You could take that table, right? And I was just looking up and down the ceiling being like, oh my god, I could see again, I'm doing I'm doing great. I'm doing great. I'm like, Sure. And next thing I know. I'm back. There we go. I'm done. And Geeta did it again. Geeta got me going again. So here we go. So she's my angel. She got me confident again.

SARAH: How did you become just a staple like you are how everyone gets introduced to Cubbyhole. You are you are a part of the bar.

DEB: I think I just I love this bar. It's my home. I've never because I think for me, it's because I've never been felt so a part of something before. I've never felt myself before. I've never was myself before. I started off as an actress like I've always acted like my even in school like I was, I went to school for acting and I fell into a career I wasn't an actress. But I think I didn't I don't have to act here. It's amazing to be yourself and be accepted for who you are. Like I look at Cubbyhole and I get the chills because I want people to feel like I feel so when people come and if I see they're new, I want to take them and I don't want them to feel confused and like. Like you can see people's eyes if I have the time of course and during happy hour like on a Monday Happy Hour, which I built up a beautiful regular following. If you know I saw a lot of people I was able to have that time to do that. One of our regulars Mona, she did not know anybody. And she came in and you know, and I always use her because she is one of the people that said she wouldn't know people if I didn't grab her and say hey, this is Mona. This is you know, this is this, you know, and now she has some of the best friends because I introduced her to people. And that's what I like to do if I know I see someone alone, if I see regulars I say Would you mind this person's you know this, you know, person X, they just walked in they don't know anyone, they're brand new to the city, they just moved here. And then one of the regulars always says don't worry, we'll take care of them. You got to, you have to and it's especially if can you imagine coming to the city, just realizing you're gay? And just standing there? You don't want that. You want to help people. 

SARAH: Do you have any other specific memories aside from Mona. You know, things that were really powerful for you like seeing people find their home?

DEB: One of the things that I do talk about it's very interesting finding people becoming themselves. It's just so amazing to me when you become comfortable in your skin and how you start dressing like you feel. Or I've seen the customer go from that and the full transition and to see the difference and the lightness and the happiness. That's the best. When you see someone come to that I've seen it with myself. I've seen my family members and friends from my past react on Instagram. My people from my old career who knew me at 22 and see they they see me happy now. It's beautiful. That makes me happy. That's what makes all of us happy. Like if you came in and didn't know who you were and anything, and then all of a sudden you see that sparkle in someone's eye as the months come on, you're just like, they're discovering themselves. And you can't do anything about it. Like, I can't say, keep going, keep going. I see that sparkle. All of a sudden, you're like, Oh, they're gonna cut their hair soon. And then they come in. And I'm like yay! They cut their hair! I know they're gonna catch up to their minds. And they do. It's nice.

SARAH: So I wanted to ask you, you know, you've seen people transition that are here and so many people are identifying as non-binary. How do you think that? I mean, Cubbyhole identifies as a lesbian bar. What does that mean to you that it's called a lesbian bar?

DEB: It's interesting that you're talking about this. I--Okay. For me, I would say our bar is inclusive. We welcome everyone. It doesn't matter who you are and it, doesn't. Are we a lesbian bar? Yes. Lisa identifies her bar as a lesbian bar. And we do identify as a lesbian bar. But that doesn't mean we're not an everybody bar, either. You know what I mean, it's like, it's we're inclusive. We welcome everyone. Certainly, as long as you're, you're a kind person and you walk in that door, we welcome you. And that's what Tanya started and wanted to do 30 years ago. Tanya started Cubbyhole when she bought it and made it an inclusive bar. As a matter of fact, the story goes is that she wanted everyone to be included. And back in the day, there used to be dykes marching in front of the bar. Because when she took over, she wanted everyone to be included. She wanted an inclusive bar. And the dykes were mad. They didn't want it to be inclusive. But she wanted everyone who walked around the corner of West 12th and West 4th, no matter who they were to feel like oh, here's a bar. I want to go in and have a drink. Like not make it like a Can I go in? Can I go in this door or whatever. She wanted everyone to feel welcome. And isn't that nice? Don't you want to open a door and just feel welcome somewhere? I mean, I want to feel welcome everywhere. So I think she's amazing. I think she was ahead of her time. And I think that it still remains that way. I think I look at Cubbyhole and I feel welcome. I'm hoping that when anyone looks at this corner and they see this green little box with those beautiful Cubbyhole colored letters, feels welcome. And if they don't I would, I say to your audience if you don't, call me or DM me on Instagram, let's let's make you feel welcome because I don't want anyone not to feel welcome. Right? Like how can you not feel welcome? It looks like like a little kids play box. You wanna go in. It's I always say this. And I'll never get old of this sentence. It's like watching when those doors open in Willy Wonka and the the expression like wow. You know, I just love it. And it's Oh, and that'll never get old when new people come into Cubby. And they look up at the ceiling. And they walk in the bar and they go Oh, wow. I love that expression in that Wow. Like, Oh, like they don't expect that. And it's just so it's a wonder it's it's the eighth wonder of the world our ceiling.

SARAH: I think you're onto something.

DEB: I do too.

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